| Author |
Message |
  
Blix (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 05:02 am: |   |
"...I still not understand how to force weker partners to play good moves and win."
So you call weaker partner (who can't play good moves and win), anybody except bot? |
Mejvik
Senior Member
Username: Mejvik
Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 05:29 am: | |
uhh...ok...let me clairfy...u sy that it is easier to predict which way krunch games go then a human partner. Don't you think that it might have something to do with that it is krunch on that board? if it was a human partner it is of course not as easy but I am sure that I with a good likelyhood can predict the outcome of a board where krunch is one player. Krunch will win.
Zh and bug are similar, if u see a mate which doesn't include taking more pieces in zh you could find the same mate in bug.
You can play zh as bug and imagine that your partner constantly trades what you give him for the same stuff in return imidiatly.
Besides I could bet money on taht krunch would beat you in zh even if you got 5 minutes per move.
The idea of you being better at slow zh is another ridicilous claim...playing zh with increment would feel like it could go on forever and i probably could if no misstakes were made. Most players, me included is too lazy to play long zh games. I get bored after like two 3 0 games...
Besides since this disussion was about you being able to be as good as krunch or not, since u claimed that you see what krunch "sees", it is rather worthless to say that you are better if it is slower.
Of course now you will argue that bug should be played bronstein, something we have covered rather extensivly in another thread.
The only way to "force" weaker partners to play your moves is trust...basiclly if they believe you are bettert then them. If I played with you I would perhaps look at the suggestion but it would not count more then the lines I found myself. The reason for this is simply that my experience tells me that people who I think is at your level rarely makes much better moves then I do and often miss alot of stuff, especially stuff that ends up killing me...in your case I would be even more careful since you are the type of partner who willingly sac without making sure that your partner is safe.
We could aswell end this discussion right here beaucse it is rather obvious that everyone seems to think that you are just overrated and a true moron when u cliam you are not.
The only way this would change is if you started playing with diffrent partners and opps.
For the record I wouldn't be surprised if Skacz alter ego turned out to be Ivos. |
Marv
Senior Member
Username: Marv
Post Number: 282
Registered: 09-2000
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 06:09 am: | |
mejvik,
quote:Besides since this disussion was about you being able to be as good as krunch or not
no this discussion is about Skacz eeking with krunch. This topic is pretty much settled now...skacz has posted approx. 30 - 40 times trying all sorts of justification for what happened and why he is worth x where x is something between 2100 and 2400. During the same time, he has played zero games with non-bot partners. Meanwhile, while you have a comparable number of posts, you played houndreds of games, astablished a new personal best and probably convinced pretty much everyone that you have improved considerably lately. That it probably the best answer to bot eekers who, after all, do all this just because they desperately long for respect they think they can get with a higher rating. Its probably best to end the whole thing, everone but one person seems to think the same here anyhow. |
Mejvik
Senior Member
Username: Mejvik
Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 08:29 am: | |
Honestly...I suck..havn't improved at all...just been lucky as hell...and those magic shrooms sure do wonders to my mating skills...
give me 2 days and I am back to 1600...when this prophecy comes true you can call me messias...
I was refering to the disussion I above...not the thread as a whole...since that topic has been covered and now only side tracks remain |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 502
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 08:38 am: | |
Well if I see interresting question I teying to answer, that all. Maybe it will help somebody understand something.
Btw everybody who little thinking have to soon make decision that if somebody partnering computer its not the same like if somebody partnering 2300 and its not the same like if somebody partnering 1700 and its not the same like if somebody partnering 1200. and its ... ...
Well all this are different kind of computers with different skills-software 
So if I can try help understand somebody my view and explain something what seems be interresting, I trying sometimes to do it. I have experience that sometimes is important to find the right view from which its all or some aspect clear enough. But sometimes is very hard to find it. |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 503
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 08:50 am: | |
Well Marv why I am not discussing with you is because You using demagogy like "During the same time, he has played zero games with non-bot partners". And I hate demagogy, I like discuss about problems not about why is somebody evil beacuse Marv is feel has to adjudicate him. Well Marv you are not a god (maybe devil ? as showed in topics about Marv lies) so you should less use adjudication view and maybe more trying solve problems and analyse bughouse games to more understand it and weak and strong parts of players. |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 504
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 09:00 am: | |
So If I will joking I can say this:
SKAcz reached 2400+ with computer. But he wads able to return with human only to 2300 in few games with very strong underated partner Zakrzutek 2129 against very very weak and overrated team Cranith 2171 + spurs 2435.
Well true is that SKAcz is 1700 and Zakrzutek 2600 so average is 2000 and opps was 1900 as team so Spurs is ? and Cranith is ?
Well Marv I nebver understand how You calculate the performance that You can say what so often saying. |
Marv
Senior Member
Username: Marv
Post Number: 283
Registered: 09-2000
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 09:34 am: | |
How many games did you play in that constellation?10? 20? Or maybe just 2 or 3?
I know that the only series worth being called a series was 10 games, you and alamar vs. VampireGod and someone i forgot. I think the result was 10-0 against you. Why dont you stop trying to defend and just play? It wont hurt very long, believe me...it will be a few dozen games while your rating goes down, and from there on you can normally play without all this hate and anger. Its certainly worth it. |
Mejvik
Senior Member
Username: Mejvik
Post Number: 148
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 01:59 am: | |
agree with marv |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 506
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 02:53 am: | |
Yes was perfect proof that Alamar and Krunch have different style so that my style I learned with krunch can work with Zakrzutek but not with alamar (especially without timeseal). Btw rhis was unrated and after this "marketing move" I did find quickly new opponents for me+Krunch.
Joke is that as more as Marv said in ch 24 that I am weak, as more strong opponents tried to eek me and I eeked them. This is nice example how Marv-rating have influence on fics rating And this working not only with computers, with computers is only use it little easy, because they are more online. Btw yesterday as I have info Krunch falled down under 1750, where the times I partnered him and he had 2000+ are ... |
Mejvik
Senior Member
Username: Mejvik
Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 06:16 am: | |
It is not a matter of style...it is a matter of partner keeping you safe and winning at the same time...he keeps you safe by letting you attack constantly.
This discussion reminds me off: "Never argue with morons, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
This will be my last post in here untill skacz proves he has anything to do above 2k...and I suggest everyone else does the same thing and we just let skacz fade away from the bughouse community and leave this thread as his legacy showing that he really isn't very good at all and stubborn as hell with a complete lack of selfdistance and an unchallanged stupidity and last but not least he lacks the balls to prove he is any good. We all know we can't find anyone anymore closely related to chicken shit on fics. Apart from being terribly overrated his communication and diplomacy skills are below accepted standards which is probably alot more problematic for himself then anyone in here.
I therefor ask everyone to stop posting, if possible it would be nice if an admin locked this thread and removed skacz from the bugboard. This would certainyl speed the fading process. I just want to remind skacz that this is nothing personal and I would think the samething about anyone who had done and said the same things with the same mentality. It is pure damaging to anything even closely related to competitive and fair bughouse and whatever contributions you have done in other aspects is clouded and not worth anything.
I think this should be a question for Fics admins but untill then I will just look at skacz and think he is a pathethic moron that should be banned for life. |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 507
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 09:06 am: | |
"It is not a matter of style..."
I totally disagree. I played with alamar as good team in 2001 most and when we gone to play bughouse our styles was very different and was very paintful to play as team for us.
I liked Creepingdeath style and Alamar attacking style that seemed be for me too risky.
Finaly after 2 years of playing bughouse we was able (thx to Matejus also and others friends) to find team strategy to be able play as team in Berlin. But it was not easy, many many discussions and different ways we tried.
On the other side with some partners is for me easy to play without such big finding of compactibility.
But this is my view which is different than yours:
I think bughouse is team game and I try find perfect team strategy the same way like try to find best moves. You trying ... well I am not sure what, because if I comapre it with trying find interresting game or challenge ... maybe say that You are better than somebody. Well maybe you are maybe not. But has that really sense ?
Isnt most important to try make best team and find best moves ?
You are nice example of how from one bad thing comeing second bad thing and 3. bad thing :
on fics is bad that the numbers are called rating, beacuse this looks like if fics rating means something like FIDE ELO (what is not true).
And some peoples wish that rating will show what they think, like Marv-rating (called in ch 24) or Mejvik-rating or Wir-rating (calling that he is little better than I am).
And because fics rating (better say numbers) is not showing what U wish You using in despair somebody "then I will just look at skacz and think he is a pathethic moron that should be banned for life".
Well I would like to make You happy,
but problem is that I got to 2440 way that was not restricted. So even if I done something bad in past or will do in the future, still in the history I will be one of best computer-bughouse players. This is fact, that I made record to skip almost 800 pts in one quarter.
I think partially I got some bonuses : some discussions was started about fics rating numbers and about parteners changing systems.
Very interresting was for me that more strong players refused for example the idea of changing partners if partners will be more than 200-300 pts of ratimg like FIDE weaker.
BTW I hate fics premove bughouse and starting discover bronstein which will allows to all play on internet.
Because still one very important facts was not mentioned here enough strong :
when I made my best I had very low lags.
For somebody from USA or with perfect connection this is not as important. But I hate lag games because lag is do bad solved on fics in bughouse.
Its more easy to get good rating if You not have lags and You can play strong opps with strong partners every time You wish. But still exists peoples in the world for which 400 or 600ms lag is what is not as rare. But really we cannot play bughouse with such lags. I think we can.
We can play interresting game, more interresting that is on fics in present. |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 649
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 12:59 pm: | |
Conclusion :
re Marv's "The stats show nicely that you are, on average, rated between 1700 and 1800."
I invested some time to partnered also different humans (Not only Zakrzutek (with who i reached 2300) or Alamar (with who i reached 2200 or very very close)) and reached 2000 today (from 1750 i fall before to have "pure" start).
Finger of SKAcz:
Bughouse 2000 29.4 11240 9819 94 21153 2441 (10-Jan-2005)
I think that this all simply shows that Marvs predictions of power and rating are saying simply NOTHING (!)
And true is in what me and some other peoples believe:
that partnering computer allowing improving players power and that bughouse is team game so with partners with which u can make good team u can be more succesful, because such game has sense and can be interresting.
PS. But You Marv can still think that I am very weak if it will make You happy So in Marv's rating I can be 1700 (because i know that in such case many others will have also funny "ratings") |
KrunchC (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 01:05 pm: | |
Finger of SKAcz:
Bughouse 1855 37.3 11300 9883 95 21278
Hmmm....so what are you telling us here? The original claim that you eek with bots to get your rating to ridiculous heights, with yourself constantly defending your "power" of 2300? You seem to be so proud to eventually run into 2000 (and as you forgot to mention, partly playing opposition such as Ivos rated at 2030) that you implicitly agree with the original topic: "SKACZ eeks with bots". I have seldom seen such a self humiliation as you managed with your previous post.
Apart from that, its normal in any system that works statistically with a given variation that a player of strength x does float around x+-y where y is some more or less constant value denoting the variation of that particular rating system. For a player of 1850-1900 level, for FICS ratings, its reasonable to eventually hit 2000, as well as 1700 (you have been there shortly before your rise to 2000). Consequently you are back to 1850 today.
So...what was it again you wanted to say? |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 650
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 03:53 am: | |
Well i wanted to show that here is big diference between "clever bug" and "random bug".
I wrote that i was able adapt to random bug more that was mentioned above. My goal was to show that i am able reach better high even in random bug.
But for me is always most important clever bug = bug with good (as me atleast) partner with which we playing as good team (!), so we have team strategy and team training vision. Of course when I dont care about random rating i will go down, because when i see how my pard making bad moves i can or unpartner him, or simply also play some risky funny random bug, which i never playing when i have partner for clever bug.
PS. OTB Berlin 2004,2005 shows that OTB is clever bug most important : look on results ...
As You can see the ability of making better rating with random partners against random opponents made also for playing "random bug" is not what is important to be strong for playing "clever bug" ... |
JK (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 01:04 pm: | |
Leave poor Skacz alone, I hate when people flame other buggers all it does is make people not want to play anymore. Anyway, about computers they can be very strong in bughouse if coordinated properly because of their speed. Two perfectly coordinating computers who knew when to sit would be completely unbeatable because of their speed. As for FICS bughouse ratings, they are very random because bughouse has alot of variance due to partners and matchups and just the randomness of the game. In general, though, I think they are pretty good snapshots of how someone is playing at that point in time, all attempts to manipulate the ratings aside. |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 651
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 03:49 am: | |
Well :
bronstein solving stupid premove or comp speed.
I doubt is easy to make good (2500+) computer team to play bronstein 60 3 for example.
What I said is valid also for bronstein.
(not calculated in teams in which somebody telling many many important moves to pard which is otherways unable to find it) |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 946
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:26 am: | |
epilogue:
3 moments :
8.8 2006
[WhiteA "SKAcz"][WhiteAElo "1759"]
[BlackA "Cracktics"][BlackAE lo "1712"]
[WhiteB "godo"][WhiteBElo "1475"]
[BlackB "Ivos"][BlackBElo "1404"]
17.8 2006
[WhiteA "PowerPanda"][WhiteA Elo "2099"]
[BlackA "SKAcz"][BlackAElo "2138"]
[WhiteB "wanksta"][WhiteBElo "2195"]
[BlackB "Bugzilla"][BlackBEl o "2424"]
[Result "0-1"]
26.8 2006
[WhiteA "Chernz"][WhiteAElo "1627"]
[BlackA "SKAcz"][BlackAElo "1659"]
[WhiteB "Alamar"][WhiteBElo "2275"]
[BlackB "CreepingDeath"][Bla ckBElo "2191"]
(I played about 1500 games in that days
and lags was also different of course,
and on the way from 1700 to 2160 and back
i played also computer bughouse,
but it was in number of games not important,
I think somewhere between my 1950 and 2000)
and Marv commented it such way that when I was on 2160, its wrong (too high) rating for me and when I was under 1700, its also wrong (too low) for me, and that its some abusing of rating system to partner Alamar. And when I matched Marv, I saw he noplays me. The second stupid thing what I remember is that Marv noplay reward because of reward's opening "damaging bughouse as game". When I asked Marv "which rating I should get to be ok in Marv's eyes, he was not able to answer. And instead started talking about some "throwing the games". So I asked him which games and which moves he talking about.
Again he was not able to answer in detail.
And instead started talk about my bad english, that I am not able to understand and that it some cultural problem ...
So after this all, because I really wanted to understand Marv, but he never answered me in detail, and continue instead always start talking about some different things,
I saw no other way how to solve it that simply I will think he is .... and I censor him to not has to listen his stupid tells which he is not able to explain and vindicate.
PS. But I can uncensor him if he will shut up
and I can play against him, because I playing against moves, not against peoples. Of course against opponent team strategy and trying find some team strategy for my team. Well sometimes it sounds like adventure to find some good style ... |
Skacz
Senior Member
Username: Skacz
Post Number: 947
Registered: 05-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 12:33 am: | |
Who wish not read all in detail here is main point: bughouse chess is team game and to playing with every partner need different team style and team work. So to determine any single person rating is something what is theoreticaly not solved, or is relative.
And Marv has some "Marv-bughouse-stand ard"
and whining every time somebody not playing "Marv-OK", with computers, with high or low partners, with lags or withouts, with own opening ...
So +censor Marv and You will be happy and safe from Marvatization
- Enjoy all combinations in bughouse chess
and feel FREE
STOP MARVATIZATION of bughouse !
(its something Marv is not able even explain in detail and I finally understand now he never was before and never will be) |
